World War II: Could Germany Have Won?

[Kwik Kash]

I know we have a few World War II buffs here, most notably colt45. I've known that since my first days here, so I figured why not make a topic on one of the most discussed scenarios?

As the title indicates, could Nazi Germany have won the war? If so, how? If not, could they have ended in a stalemate or lasted, maybe, a few more years before capsizing?

Discuss! And if this goes well, I may present a few more alternative scenarios during this time period.

[Kwik Kash]

You bring up one of the primary arguments against a German victory, their lack of resources to fight a prolonged war. It seems that they have this fascination with wanting to invade France all the time, when they should have diverted more forces towards North Africa and the Middle East.

I'm a strong believer that had Rommel been able to penetrate through British and Arabic defenses in Egypt, the Germans and Italians could have linked up to the allied forces in the Balkans, the Iraq and Iran governments who were pro-Axis, and secured a large source of raw resources and oil.

Hitler's problem seemed to be, he wanted these huge armies but not the means to support them. He expected things such as metal and oil to come out of thin air, kind of like a child who just wants something but not the hard work that comes with getting it.

America can fight a conventional war, we seem to have a problem with anything else. Vietnam is an example, and to a lesser extent Iraq. Ironically, when we left Vietnam, it stabilized itself and to this day you do not hear us having much of a problem with them.

But back on topic, I think that the Germans may not have conquered the world. But I do think they could have kept most of their possessions in the east, the Baltic, and some of the Balkans. France and the Low Countries, maybe, though I see them possibly becoming satellite nations, kind of like what Russia did with Eastern Europe.

[Kwik Kash]

Sept 1, 2008 19:14:06 GMT -5 abraxas said:

Um Mr. Hitler do you think its wise to attack the Russians in the middle of winter......Yeah why not ;D

He attacked them in the Summer, actually. A little later than intended as the Italians were having trouble in the Balkans, one of the primary reasons Greece and Yugoslavia fell to the Axis powers, was the Italians' inability to fight a modern war. Sure the attack was delayed some months, but the Germans expected for them to reach and push past Moscow before the October snows.

I do think the mistake with Operation Barbarossa was not waiting for it, Hitler was way too impatient. German High Command, as they had the power, should have finished off Great Britain, secured their western borders and solidified North African trading routes. Then began the push into the Middle East to hit the Soviet Union from another front, allowing the German war machine a slightly easier time in achieving their objectives. Hitler did not assume total control until a little ways into the invasion of Russia.

[f13ticket]

Most certainly they could have won. In fact, in understanding the last days of the war, America won mostly by the seat of their pants. The NAZI regime were in development of nuclear weapons. From what I understand, they were far enough along that a dirty bomb would have been possible pretty close to around the same time that the allies invaded. I remember watching a special on this on History Channel a while ago, the NAZIS sent the materials over to Japan so that they could finish the war by nuking California. A dirty bomb means they can detonate a nuke, but not launch it. So they'd have to bring it into a harbor on a ship, then detonate it. The blast would still be large enough to paralyze whatever coast it was set on. I think it was a Japanese sub that hat the material, but it was found and brought in before it could get to Japan with it. I haven't seen the special in a while, but yeah, America won that by the skin of their teeth. A couple weeks, a month maybe, and we would have been talking nuclear warfare with Germany.

D-Day itself only went off because Hitler didn't wake up in time command his troops. I saw another special on this, I think it was, "High Hitler." Hitler had many gastral pains, and for his speeches, was given many drugs to keep him up, then put him down. He suffered, in many ways, from fame like Elvis did. As such, and I don't remember exactly why, but he was stuck asleep on the day of the invasion. So, in short, it may have been gass and drugs that won D-Day for America. The Germans had far better equipment and, to me at least, seemed a lot more dedicated to their cause than America. This was before the concentration camps were discovered. America was fighting Germany at this point because they were an ally of Japan that bombed the US.

Hitler's only real mistake in the war was attacking Russia. If he kept it a one front war, he certainly would have been able to hold his ground against England. And, mostly likely, would have defeated them. The only reason the Americans won was luck and numbers. We've always approached war on the cheap. Instead of making one good tank, and training someone to be really good at working it, America was make five or so crappy tanks and half ass train people on them. And America is large enough as a country that they had enough young men to do this cannon fodder approach and make it work. Sure, the German tank might take out three American tanks, but after we loose three of ours number four will take out theirs. It's a wasteful way to go about war, but we really haven't went about war in a non-wasteful way sense, well, maybe the Civil War?

[Mr. Christy was a perv]

If they had won then we'd all be speaking German. ;D

[Halloween11]

Truefully Nazi Germany couldve won the war easily if they didnt attack russia.

[Xч]

I agree,
The only thing that prevented German victory were the Russians.Even if Hitler did wait,i still think the soviet union would have won.The Russian people are strong spirited,every single man picked up arms and defended themselves-they rather die fighting than to be German slaves.Look what happened at Stalingrad.Hitler completely underestimated the Russians.That imo is what ultimately led to the downfall of the third Reich.

Now,if Hitler had stalin on his side against the world.
Forget about it,Germany would have won the second world war but not world dominance.A few years after winning,they declare war on the soviet Union.Who knows what the outcome of that would have been.

[Colt .45]

Great topic!!

First off, here are two cool little video called. "If The Nazis Had Won The War"
www.youtube.com/watch?v=VkNyZOKGec4
www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVksVZs0nmo


The way I see it, Hitler made these major mistakes.

1: He chose Quality over Quantity.
2: He had way too much land and not enough men to control the borders
3: His final orders for the Battle of the Bulge and the Battle for Berlin....'Nuff said.
4: The allies destroyed their Petrol supply.
5:Declaring war on the U.S. and invading Russia after they made the treaty.

I believe that Hitler gave the order to fight to the last man in Berlin was intended as a "I told you I could do it" victory for Hitler. I think he wanted to proove to Himmler, Goebells, Goerring, and Milche that he wasnt crazy and he knew what he was doing.

For those of you who are not familiar with Germania, this video is worth a look.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oy1xdWvIFU4




I dont think any nation, no matter what time period could control the world. I beleive the Nazi's could have easily controlled Eurasia.

[Kwik Kash]

Great videos, colt. The one with Roosevelt talking got drowned out with the music, but that may have been the intention. The second one was nice, very simple but looks authentic.

I guess now would be as good a time to introduce a band I've been listening to for a while, they're from Finland and sing a lot about World War I and World War II songs. Pretty epic stuff, kind of gives you a feel of how things went, and it tells a story to some awesome music.

Sabaton - Panzerkampf:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eduwr2Z6Zr8

It's just the album cover with the song, but it tells of the German invasion of Russia, the conflict that happens, and some factors of what broke the German offensive.

[Colt .45]

Great band, thanks for sharing.
I like the avatar too!

[Xч]

Cool avatar Colt,
Hans-Ulrich Rudel was the only person to be awarded the Knight's Cross with the Golden Oak Leaves. He was the best Stuka dive-bomber pilot in the third Reich,he even destroyed a soviet Battleship.

[Kwik Kash]

Nov 24, 2008 16:17:21 GMT -5 Colt .45 said:

Great band, thanks for sharing.
I like the avatar too!

Thanks. Rommel has always been one of my favorites, as has Manstein. I found their resourcefulness and ability to win, regardless of the odds, inspiring.

I figured you'd like that band, or at least the topic of the majority of their songs. It sounds like something you'd go into battle with, at least to me it does.

But back on the topic of Germany winning the Second World War and how the Russian invasion went, I do think it ruined Hitler's chances in the long run, but I also think the Germans could have pacified a stable front line if they had focused more on North Africa, running out Great Britain.

As for taking out the Soviet Union, it's such a large country. Hitler may have taken the industrial west, but I am pretty sure they would have to deal with huge uprisings and such. It'd grind them down slowly I'm sure, but could they have taken Moscow, yes, if they had their other forces to scatter the concentration of Soviet soldiers, especially in the southern regions. This would have allowed the central divisions to go up north, perhaps relieving the Siege of Leningrad.

[Kwik Kash]

Here's a map of what I believe Europe would look like in the event of an Axis victory:

[Xч]

Interesting.